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Thread: Jesus did not eat the Passover meal

  1. #1

    Cool Jesus did not eat the Passover meal

    I know, I know, your preacher says he did--- However John 19 says He did not eat the passover meal with His disciples ....

    Jesus had his last supper at the beginning of the day of preparation of the passover(the evening beginning the day of preparation)
    John 19 clearly shows that Jesus was crucified on the day of the preparation BEFORE Passover so Jesus could not have eaten the passover meal ...
    Jesus had to be taken down off the cross and put in the tomb BEFORE the passover (the next day)could begin at sunset..........

    Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

    John 19:13 When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
    Joh 19:14 And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
    Joh 19:15 But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

    Mat 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation,((the Passover)) the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
    Mat 27:63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
    Mat 27:64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Jesus did not eat the Passover meal

    Really?

    Matthew 26:17 Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?
    Matthew 26:18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.
    Matthew 26:19 And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.
    Matthew 26:20 Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.
    Matthew 26:21 And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

    Sure sounds like He's eating the Passover to me - what am I missing here, as I read this passage?

  3. #3

    Cool Re: Jesus did not eat the Passover meal

    It seems we have an interesting supposed contradiction

    ......John does seem to say that Jesus was killed a couple hours before the Passover began at Sunset....
    Jewish days begin at sunset...
    In order to be in the ground 3 days and 3 night s before raising from the dead Sunday morning, it seems Jesus had to die before sunset Wednsday......

    Matthew_12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    Thursday Passover begins at our Wed sunset...

    Usually a crucified person took days to die...
    The whole point of breaking the legs, killing the thieves was that they had to be off the cross before the ""Holy Day"" I assume is the passover.... (3 day holy days)
    Otherwise the Jews thought the land would be defiled....The religious Jew could not touch a dead body because they could not then eat the passover...

    I guess this needs more research....

  4. #4

    Cool Re: Jesus did not eat the Passover meal

    This is my pastors reply from a real theologian......
    see the last paragraph... we see that both deciples are ""correct""

    Lewis,

    Check this out. Pay special attention to the last paragraph:

    The Passover (13:1–18:1; Mt. 26:17–35; Mk. 14:12–26; Lu. 22:1–39)—From the opening of the thirteenth chapter to the opening of the eighteenth—five chapters—is an account of both the Last Supper and our Lord’s utterances in the Upper Room, although because of the words, “Arise, let us go hence,” at the close of the fourteenth chapter, the balance is thought to have occurred elsewhere, partly in the Temple and partly outside the city wall, but it is undoubtedly a connected discourse and presumably was uttered entirely in the Upper Room. No other occasion has received so much space in the Holy Oracles as those sacred hours that reached from little beyond sunset to midnight. No sweeter words ever fell from the lips of Jesus than around that table, which Leonardo da Vinci has given to us under the title of “The Last Supper.”
    The Passover was one of the three great Jewish Feasts when all the men should appear before Jehovah. It was to commemorate the angel passing over the homes of the Israelites when in Egyptian bondage. Because Pharaoh would not allow the Jews to make an offering of the firstlings of their cattle, Jehovah smote the first–born of the Egyptians and their cattle. The Passover was celebrated on the 14th of the first month, Nisan, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread followed on the 15th and continued for seven days,4 but in the New Testament the two Feasts appear to be identified as one, both referring to the days of Egyptian bondage. Great crowds attended this Feast. In the year 63 A. D. the high priest reported to the Procurator Cestius Gallus that 256,500 lambs were slain at that Passover and that 2,700,000 Jews participated in the worship. Women partook of the Feast, but no uncircumcised male was allowed to be present.6
    Stung by the great indictment that Jesus had laid against the Jewish rulers, they were holding secret conferences, planning for the killing of Jesus; while Judas, already disappointed at the poor prospects for establishing a material kingdom, out of which he looked for gain, and stung by the rebuke that Jesus had given him concerning the waste of the ointment that Mary had poured upon the head and feet of Jesus, was planning to get out of the apostolic band and to make as much by the deal as possible. Judas presented himself at their conferences and they paid him on the spot thirty pieces of silver, equal to about $18.00, which was the price of the ordinary slave.
    While these things were going on, Jesus sent two of His disciples into the city to make preparation for the Passover Supper, and instead of naming the house of Mary, the mother of Mark, whose home was the meeting place in the early days of the Church, and where tradition has located the Upper Room, He concealed the meeting place, perhaps for fear that Judas might betray Him there instead of later in the night, and so they were directed to be guided by a man carrying a pitcher of water, which was unusual, for women generally carried the water. The friend yielded to the request, and the guest chamber was put at the disposal of Jesus and His apostles.
    According to the Talmud, the supper began with mixing a cup of wine and giving of thanks. Then was set out the bitter herbs, reminding them of the bitterness of Egyptian bondage, and the crushed figs or other fruit mixed with vinegar, reminding them of the clay when their ancestors, in Egyptian bondage, made bricks without straw,10 and the unleavened bread and the lamb. Then a blessing, and the herbs were dipped into the dish and eaten and a second cup of wine was prepared. Here the head of the house explained the meaning of the Passover, and perhaps in getting their places at the table a strife had been precipitated, and it is presumably at this time that Jesus got up from the table and washed the disciples’ feet, which was a courtesy usually done by the servants of the house. It was a striking rebuke to their worldly ambition, and He reminded them that it was “an example” for their imitation, and once we find mention of the practice in apostolic times, which appears to be a mark of hospitality rather than a Church ordinance.
    From this, however, feet–washing began to be practiced in some quarters in the fourth century as a perpetual observance among Christians. It is still practiced by some of the priests of the Greek Church; by the Pope, who washes the feet of twelve pilgrims once a year in Rome, and by several Protestant bodies, especially the Dunkards and Mennonites, but in all these cases the feet are carefully washed before they are washed in this observance, which was entirely unlike the circumstances of Jesus washing the disciples’ feet. Those hands that had healed the blind and that had touched the dead into life now handled with loving tenderness the soiled feet of all the apostles—even Judas, whose feet were perhaps tired from the errand of betrayal upon which he had so recently gone. It was a lesson in the practice of humility, which is one of the rarest virtues and is so much needed in these days of pride and worldly ambition.
    After explaining the meaning of the Passover, the first part of the Hallel was sung, which consisted of Psalms 113–115, and the second cup of wine was passed. Then the head of the house washed his hands, took two loaves of bread, broke one, laid the broken parts upon the whole, gave another blessing, and then dipped the broken piece into the crushed figs, saying, “Blessed be Thou, O Lord God, our Eternal King, who has sanctified us by Thy commandments and commanded us to eat.” Then followed the eating of the bread and the herbs and the lamb. Here Judas appears to have gone out, and Jesus foretold the denial of Peter, the forsaking of Him by all of them, and He established a Feast in memory of Himself, which Paul called “the Lord’s Supper,” and ever since this memorial supper has been a power in deepening the spiritual life of the believer.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>
    While from the Synoptists it is clear that this was the regular Passover Supper, yet from some expressions in John, Farrar concluded that this Last Supper was not the regular Passover, since it appears to have been eaten the day before the legal date, but John was doubtless (????) using the expression for the entire week rather than for one day, which was a tendency in the time of Christ and still more so at the time of John’s writing his Gospel. The last Passover for Judaism was on Thursday evening, and on Friday Jesus became the Lamb slain for the sins of the whole world.<<<<<<<<<

    IMHO note there is no way that Jesus could have died Friday and be in the earth 3 days and 3 nights !!!!!!!!!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Jesus did not eat the Passover meal

    That's a lot of history and interesting facts, brother, but I don't see anywhere in here that changes what I see in the passage of Matthew.

    Having said that I will admit that I know that Jesus is, obviously (to us believers) THE Passover Lamb and was slain ON Passover. I'm not sure how that fits into our discussion so, like you, I plan to research this a bit more.

  6. #6

    Cool Re: Jesus did not eat the Passover meal

    Ah ha !! think I have it (maybe) The passover lamb was slain the day before passover, the day of the preparation before the passover !!!
    So for Jesus to be the passover lamb, He would have had to have been slain a couple hours before passover (Thursday) started at sunset Wednsday afternoon !!!

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Jesus did not eat the Passover meal

    But when was the meal eaten? Makes sense the meal would have to be eaten AFTER the lamb was slain because it was the focal point OF that meal...making what your pastor said quite valid (if I recall my steps correctly from Exodus.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Jesus did not eat the Passover meal

    There appears to be a contradiction in timing of events between the first three gospels and that of John. A key to understanding this is to look at hourly timing and the calendars in use. The first three gospels employ Jewish times. Thus the third hour of the day is the third hour after sunrise or 9am. However for John this is the ninth hour. He is using Roman hours, just like we do today, counting from midnight. So we need to understand that while things may look contradictory in fact there are explanations.

    In Jesus time on earth, and only this time, there were two competing calendar systems in use by the Jews. One was based on Sadducee understanding of Torah, while the other was based on Pharisee teachings. An example of this is the Festival of Firstfruits which according to Leviticus is to be celebrated on the day “after the Sabbath” associated with Passover. The Sadducees understood this to be the regular weekly Sabbath. Thus Firstfruits and Shavuot (Pentecost) will always fall on a Sunday (first day of the week) regardless of when Passover is celebrated. The Pharisees on the other hand understood the proper day for Firstfruits was the day after the Sabbath of the First Day of Unleaven Bread. This makes Firstfruits fall always on the 16th of Nisan, but the day of the week will vary. Note According to this calendar which is still in use in Jewish homes, Shavuot/Pentecost will always fall on the 6th of Sivan regardless of what day of the week that is.

    So let us now look at the actual Passover sequence. I understand the Sadducee practice was to literally slaughter lambs at sundown on the 14th of Nisan. The Samaritans still follow this custom. Note that this is actually the start of the day. It takes about an hour for the sky to turn to darkness. According to this sequence the lambs are then roasted and eaten that evening, still the 14th of Nisan. The next day starts the Feast of Unleaven Bread. I believe Jesus and his disciples kept to this calendar, and had their Passover the evening of the 14th. After the meal they went to the garden and Jesus was arrested around midnight. Recall that the disciples thought Judas was going to prepare things for the Feast (ie The Feast of Unleaven Bread) which would follow on the 15th evening.

    What are the Pharisees doing? They slaughter lambs on the afternoon the 14th of Nisan as the day is ending, not starting. They commence this practice at 3pm as the sun begins to set. Then they eat the Passover after sundown which makes it technically the 15th of Nisan. For them Passover meal is celebrated concurrently with the Feast of Unleaven Bread. I believe Jesus died at 3pm on the afternoon of Nisan 14th just as the lambs were being slaughtered in the Temple according to this second calendar. Thus he both ate a proper Passover seder with his disciples AND became the Passover lamb himself the next day. God intentionally allowed this foggy calendar confusion to exist for this very event!

    Suffice to say that in Jesus time the Pharisees were becoming very strong. The Sadducees were about to disappear from history. Certainly by the destruction of the Temple in 70AD they were gone. Realize that the closer one gets to 70AD the less the Sadducees were relevant. Pharisee culture had overwhelmed them.

    So what about Paul? We know from Acts 23:6 that Paul remained a Pharisee. He exclaimed in the Sanhedrin “I am a Pharisee”…not “I was a Pharisee”. We would expect him to keep a Pharisee observance for Passover as well. So notice in 1 Corinthians 11:12 he says Jesus “in the night he was betrayed, took bread…” Why not simply say "at the Passover meal"? Because the Pharisees recognized the Passover meal only on the next night, the 15th. Along the same lines note that Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:8 calls Jesus the “Passover” lamb. That is because he died at the time of the lamb slaughter according to the Pharisee calendar system. The first three gospels are not focusing on the death of the lamb, rather the celebration of Passover. John is writing to Jews much later. For them there is now only one Passover calendar in effect…the Pharisees calendar. So he uses the timings for Jesus activities as measured by this calendar, just like he uses Roman times for the hours of the day.

    Most Biblical students go with one calendar or the other. If they focus on the Passover (which Matthew, Mark and Luke do) they typically ignore the timings according to John. And if they focus on John with Jesus as the Lamb, then they marginalize the supper Jesus had with his disciples as a non-Passover meal. However if you accept the two calendar system I have outlined above, the conflict disappears totally. Jesus ends up fulfilling everything, to the glory of His Father in Heaven!

  9. #9

    Cool Re: Jesus did not eat the Passover meal

    Great answer.... so; both are right ... we knew that it had to be a lack of context and understanding...

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Jesus did not eat the Passover meal

    Thanks for the info on Passover/4 gospels, etc. While we disagree on Paul continuing to be a Pharisee, for this thread you've answered an important question.

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