Announcement

**Issachar** · 04-01-2017, 01:09 AM

Re: Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

Ok, one phrase or sentence at a time:

Originally posted by Lewis

Jesus made a genuine offer to start the Millennial kingdom right then!!!

Scripture? It would be helpful in considering what you are saying.

Issachar

**Guest** · 04-01-2017, 10:03 AM

Re: Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

Scripture? It would be helpful in considering what you are saying.

I'm running out the door to go tall ship sailing right now

However consider the many times Jesus preached the Gospel of His Millennial kingdom!!!
to be set up if the Hebrew people would accept him!!!

**Andy** · 04-01-2017, 12:53 PM

Re: Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

I get your point, Lewis, and to an extent I actually agree (shocked??)

. While Jesus did usher in the new covenant ("New Testament") He, Himself, lived under the Mosaic Law otherwise how could He fulfill it perfectly.

Edit to add: Actually, Jesus didn't usher in the new covenant - the Spirit of God did, AFTER Jesus had ascended. Sounds like what Lewis proposes may have some accuracy to it?

**Guest** · 04-01-2017, 08:44 PM

Re: Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

The Kingdom come:
Mat_15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
Mat_10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Mat_4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Mat_9:35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
Mat_24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. >>>>>The Jew would have preached the Kingdom to the whole world while Jesus sat on the Millennial kingdom throne !!!
Mar_1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Not the Church age but:
Mat_3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. >>>The Eternal kingdom<<<
Mat_4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat_10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mar_1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Luk_21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

No I'm not shocked Bro Andy

I just knew you would come around--eventually

**Guest** · 04-01-2017, 11:56 PM

Re: Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

And btw, Jesus does mention the Church indirectly in Mark ch 13 which was part of my daily reading this evening...
It is simular of course to Matthew 24...In Mark 13 it looks like Jesus is speaking to both Jew and gentile where Matthew 24 is solely to the Jew...

imh (tenative) o, of course

**Issachar** · 04-02-2017, 12:14 AM

Re: Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

Posts 1 & 3 you mention the "gospel of the millennial kingdom." While I appreciate the scriptures you quoted in post 5 (just because they are quotes from the Word), I'm not seeing anything about the millennial kingdom. ??

Mark 16:
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Which gospel is being preached to all the world? Now I believe there is only one gospel; I think you know that. I think you are saying that there are two (or more??).

Then on the Road to Emmaus:

Luke 24:
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
29 But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
30 And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.

Do you have a thought on v.27?

See also, John 5:30-47, and in particular:

John 5:
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

I believe that "the scriptures" to which Jesus is referring, is what we generally call "the Old Testament." Again, as always, the Old Testament, is pointing to Jesus. When I read the scripture (only), I see a continuum from the fall and the first recorded prophecy in Genesis 3:15 to the end of all things, where salvation is always by the Grace of God and is acquired by faith.

Issachar

**Issachar** · 04-02-2017, 12:21 AM

Re: Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

So late with church coming tomorrow (today actually

) morning and I teach a class after .. but, one more before sleep overtakes ...

1 Corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Paul is here describing what is the gospel. Twice he says, "according to the scriptures." The "scriptures", to Paul, is the Old Testament.

Especially note v.3 and v.4. He was preaching Christ, from the Old Testament, including His death, burial and resurrection .. even on the third day; according to the scriptures.

Issachar

**Guest** · 04-02-2017, 06:20 AM

Re: Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

Originally posted by lewisb View Post

However consider the many times Jesus preached the Gospel of His Millennial kingdom!!!
to be set up if the Hebrew people would accept him!!!

So according to what you are implying, if the Hebrew people repented and accepted Jesus, He would have set up His millennial kingdom immediately? How would sin have been atoned for in this manner? Also, as stated by Issachar, how would all of the prophecies in scripture be fulfilled?

This line of thinking makes the cross look like "plan b" if the Jews do not accept him, which I do not believe scripture supports. JMHO

**Guest** · 04-02-2017, 02:31 PM

Re: Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

Jesus gave the Jews the choice knowing they would refuse him... which then did fulfill all the scriptures!!!
No, the Cross has never been "Plan B" because God / Jesus knew / knows all things...

"Gospel" means literally "'The good news""
Jesus preached to the Jew the "good news" of the imminent millennial kingdom...
after they rejected Him, the apostles preached the "good news" of the Church!!!

Luke 24:27 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Precisely!!! The scriptures said His people would reject Him...

.......The dispensation of the Law would be interrupted for almost 2000 years and the Church age would soon come..... The Church age dispensation is the great paranthesees!!!

Dispensation of Law ((( church age))) Law for 7 final years during the Tribulation period ---then the >>dispensation of Sight<< .... Jesus is There reigning on the throne, The World can SEE Him, so no faith is needed!!!

**Issachar** · 04-03-2017, 01:14 PM

Re: Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

re. post 4

Originally posted by Andy

Actually, Jesus didn't usher in the new covenant - the Spirit of God did, AFTER Jesus had ascended. Sounds like what Lewis proposes may have some accuracy to it?

I am not able to understand this; at least, without some clarification.

True that the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, was sent after Jesus ascended.

John 16:
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

I believe that Jesus' shed blood IS the new covenant.

Luke 22:
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

It seems that God initiates a covenant through the shedding of blood. This is because the shedding of the blood is death and it is death from which we are saved; the curse of sin.

Issachar

**Issachar** · 04-03-2017, 01:47 PM

Re: Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

Originally posted by Lewis

Dispensation of Law ((( church age))) Law for 7 final years during the Tribulation period

The "dispensation" of Law was the first covenant. It was replaced due to it's being faulty. Why would ever, God go back to something faulty when that which is perfect is come?

Hebrews 8:
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.

Also, hopefully before replying, carefully read all of Hebrews 9. I have no doubt that you've read all of the Bible several times by now, but I do hope you'll re-read Hebrews 9. Preferably, 8, 9 & 10 all together.

I've been doing some digging around on this matter of dispensationalism. It is a great puzzle. What I don't understand about these things, also such as calvinism, arminianism, and many other isms, is how so many "scholarly" people can come up with so many versions of the same thing, from the same Bible. Personally, I don't think that they can. There is something else going on here. Someone, sincerely, gets a revelation while reading scripture and sometimes, without the "iron sharpening iron" principle (Proverbs 27:17), takes off in a direction, writes a commentary and ends up with followers of that view. Now I have learned much from teachers of the Word and appreciate much of what they teach. Various calvinists, arminians, dispensationalists' (especially), without knowing they were any of those things. Now, doing some digging around, I'm finding dispensationalists that teach 3 dispensations, 5, 6 and even 9 dispensations. I can't accept that. It's like the Hebrew "experts" that look at every little detail in the Hebrew; every jot and tittle, and come up with VAST variations from the SAME WORDS. e.g. "experts" looking at Genesis 1 and coming up with a so called gap theory or framework hypothesis or progressive creation or theistic evolution or day-age theory .. blah, blah, blah. They can't all be correct and in this list, aren't. The plain (and usually but not necessarily literal) reading of the Word in conjunction with the Holy Spirit, is sufficient.

Proverbs 27:
17 Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another. (ESV)

John 16:
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you.
15 All things that the Father has are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.

Issachar

**Guest** · 04-03-2017, 01:59 PM

Re: Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

The "dispensation" of Law was the first covenant. It was replaced due to it's being faulty. Why would ever, God go back to something faulty when that which is perfect is come?

Yes, deep stuff !!

The 70th week of Daniel must be fulfilled!!
The Church has left in the Rapture... so the Church age Dispensation is finished!
The dispensation of Sight has not yet come so the World and the Jew is back under the Law
until the 2nd coming !!!

The Church age is the great Parenthese ((( church))) within the age of the Law!!!

**Issachar** · 04-03-2017, 02:22 PM

Re: Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

I hear what you are saying brother, but I'm not seeing scripture for it.

I understand the 70th week, etc.

One thing I'd like clarified and if I'm way off, I apologize in advance and will after ..

I think you are saying that during the millennium, the old covenant will be reinstated and somehow Jews will be justified by adhering to that?

Jeremiah 31:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Perhaps you are and somehow I'm blinded to it, but it seems like you are not addressing any scripture I'm posting? Have you had a bit of time to read at least Hebrews 9? I have a lot of questions this topic in light of ch.8-10 .. and more.

Issachar

**Guest** · 04-03-2017, 03:58 PM

Re: Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

I think you are saying that during the millennium, the old covenant will be reinstated and somehow Jews will be justified by adhering to that?

We see through "a glass darkly" as famous said !!!
Imho in the final dispensation Jesus will be there for all to see sitting on the throne so they can"t have "grace by faith"...
Instead they have grace perhaps by acceptance and righteousness ??? Note that every nation MUST go up to Jerusalem yearly to worship otherwise they will have no rain and other "stuff" will happen...Zech 14:17

Even in another garden of Eden Jesus servants will have to use a "rod of iron" to keep order!!!Rev 19:15...

Note that as in the Old Testiment these Millennial saints are the Servants of GOD while the Church are the Sons of GOD !!!

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
eternal inheritance. --the Church!!!
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Appear to who? The Church !!!
Yes, indeed he is talking about the Church!!! Not about what will occur in the time after the Church age !!!
Seems I remember we had a discussion

about this years ago !!!

Announcement

Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment