Re: Matthew Mark Luke and John are Old Testiment books!!!
Good morning Shibboleth.
I think everyone here believes that the Holy Spirit, being God, is always present, everywhere, which would, of course, mean here too.
But Jesus, referring to the Holy Spirit as the "Comforter", won't be sent to us unless He goes first, to the Father. Post #11 merely touches on that. Since you have brought this up and it seems even more relevant to the discussion now, I'm going to say a bit more on that; but first, let's see what God has to say, of course.
John 14 starts with talk of hearts being troubled, apparently because of the conversation in John 13.
[ESV]
John 13:
33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. You will seek me, and just as I said to the Jews, so now I also say to you, 'Where I am going you cannot come.'
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."
36 Simon Peter said to him, "Lord, where are you going?" Jesus answered him, "Where I am going you cannot follow me now, but you will follow afterward."
37 Peter said to him, "Lord, why can I not follow you now? I will lay down my life for you."
38 Jesus answered, "Will you lay down your life for me? Truly, truly, I say to you, the rooster will not crow till you have denied me three times.
So the disciples are troubled by a few things (at least). That Jesus is talking about leaving them and going somewhere and that Peter will deny Him and (read all of ch.13) that one of them will betray Him. Plus there is given them, a new commandment - v.34.
John 14:
1 "Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
4 And you know the way to where I am going."
5 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?"
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him."
8 Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?
Please see whole chapter. Also note, I use the KJV 99% of the time but am currently using the ESV. That is only because I think it is HSB (post #27) that once mentioned a preference for the ESV. Where the KJV uses the term "Comforter", the ESV uses "Helper." I believe that "Comforter" is the better translation of the Greek word used; parakletos (Strongs G3875). In fact, I am taking the liberty to place "Comforter" into the ESV.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
I'm using only my Bible (e-sword) and prayer in this reply so please bare with my not being a theologian.
I have found in the past and always, what you (Shibboleth) mentioned; Psalms 51:11, fascinating and a blessing.
I'd like to quote the whole of ch.51 .. but . . . we live in something for now, called time.
KJV
Psalms 51:
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy Holy Spirit from me. (The KJV translators apparently did not use upper case 'H' and 'S' . . . but I do, so I changed that in 'Holy Spirit'.)
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
ESV
Psalms 51:
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit.
13 Then I will teach transgressors your ways, and sinners will return to you.
Now there is MUCH discussion about what v.11 means, among Christians. I don't join that much .. I just read it and believe it, because that is what it says; "take not your Holy Spirit from me."
Back to John 14:
v.16 it's interesting to note Jesus' words, "the Father . . . will give you another Comforter. Another. So ... what? Jesus is the "Comforter" while on earth but when He leaves/left, the Holy Spirit will be sent as the Comforter? That's what it says, "another."
v.17 .. speaking of the Holy Spirit, "You know Him (present tense), for He dwells with you (present tense) and will be (future tense?) in you.
Just noting is all ..
20 In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.
This v.20 is one of many reasons that ch. 14 is one of my favorites (although, the favorites list is getting incredibly long the older I get. ). Consider it along with Galatians 3:16,29.
26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
So there we have it from the Word of God . . . the Comforter (another - v.16) and the Holy Spirit are one and the same.
and then sort of referring back to ch. 13 at the start of this post concerning fear and a troubled heart:
27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.
28 You heard me say to you, 'I am going away, and I will come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
29 And now I have told you before it takes place, so that when it does take place you may believe.
Now, I think it is obvious that I am not a "dispensationalist" per se, such as our brother, Lewis (and looking up past posts, our sister Sandylion) and others, but there is much of it I agree with. But that is true for me, of many "theologies" out there, none of which I ever even heard of until after I had been saved for very near 10 years (when someone in a conversation said, "Oh, you're an Arminian." I said, "A what??" ) and most of which I haven't heard of until being a member here (going on 18 years) and interacting with folks from many backgrounds. Of many of them, I believe some of and not some of. No, I don't have a "list", but I/we do have the Word and the Holy Spirit that will lead us into all truth - v.26 above.
Issachar
Good morning Shibboleth.
I think everyone here believes that the Holy Spirit, being God, is always present, everywhere, which would, of course, mean here too.
But Jesus, referring to the Holy Spirit as the "Comforter", won't be sent to us unless He goes first, to the Father. Post #11 merely touches on that. Since you have brought this up and it seems even more relevant to the discussion now, I'm going to say a bit more on that; but first, let's see what God has to say, of course.
John 14 starts with talk of hearts being troubled, apparently because of the conversation in John 13.
[ESV]
John 13:
33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. You will seek me, and just as I said to the Jews, so now I also say to you, 'Where I am going you cannot come.'
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another."
36 Simon Peter said to him, "Lord, where are you going?" Jesus answered him, "Where I am going you cannot follow me now, but you will follow afterward."
37 Peter said to him, "Lord, why can I not follow you now? I will lay down my life for you."
38 Jesus answered, "Will you lay down your life for me? Truly, truly, I say to you, the rooster will not crow till you have denied me three times.
So the disciples are troubled by a few things (at least). That Jesus is talking about leaving them and going somewhere and that Peter will deny Him and (read all of ch.13) that one of them will betray Him. Plus there is given them, a new commandment - v.34.
John 14:
1 "Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
4 And you know the way to where I am going."
5 Thomas said to him, "Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?"
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him."
8 Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?
Please see whole chapter. Also note, I use the KJV 99% of the time but am currently using the ESV. That is only because I think it is HSB (post #27) that once mentioned a preference for the ESV. Where the KJV uses the term "Comforter", the ESV uses "Helper." I believe that "Comforter" is the better translation of the Greek word used; parakletos (Strongs G3875). In fact, I am taking the liberty to place "Comforter" into the ESV.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
I'm using only my Bible (e-sword) and prayer in this reply so please bare with my not being a theologian.
I have found in the past and always, what you (Shibboleth) mentioned; Psalms 51:11, fascinating and a blessing.
I'd like to quote the whole of ch.51 .. but . . . we live in something for now, called time.
KJV
Psalms 51:
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy Holy Spirit from me. (The KJV translators apparently did not use upper case 'H' and 'S' . . . but I do, so I changed that in 'Holy Spirit'.)
12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
ESV
Psalms 51:
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation, and uphold me with a willing spirit.
13 Then I will teach transgressors your ways, and sinners will return to you.
Now there is MUCH discussion about what v.11 means, among Christians. I don't join that much .. I just read it and believe it, because that is what it says; "take not your Holy Spirit from me."
Back to John 14:
v.16 it's interesting to note Jesus' words, "the Father . . . will give you another Comforter. Another. So ... what? Jesus is the "Comforter" while on earth but when He leaves/left, the Holy Spirit will be sent as the Comforter? That's what it says, "another."
v.17 .. speaking of the Holy Spirit, "You know Him (present tense), for He dwells with you (present tense) and will be (future tense?) in you.
Just noting is all ..
20 In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.
This v.20 is one of many reasons that ch. 14 is one of my favorites (although, the favorites list is getting incredibly long the older I get. ). Consider it along with Galatians 3:16,29.
26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
So there we have it from the Word of God . . . the Comforter (another - v.16) and the Holy Spirit are one and the same.
and then sort of referring back to ch. 13 at the start of this post concerning fear and a troubled heart:
27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid.
28 You heard me say to you, 'I am going away, and I will come to you.' If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
29 And now I have told you before it takes place, so that when it does take place you may believe.
Now, I think it is obvious that I am not a "dispensationalist" per se, such as our brother, Lewis (and looking up past posts, our sister Sandylion) and others, but there is much of it I agree with. But that is true for me, of many "theologies" out there, none of which I ever even heard of until after I had been saved for very near 10 years (when someone in a conversation said, "Oh, you're an Arminian." I said, "A what??" ) and most of which I haven't heard of until being a member here (going on 18 years) and interacting with folks from many backgrounds. Of many of them, I believe some of and not some of. No, I don't have a "list", but I/we do have the Word and the Holy Spirit that will lead us into all truth - v.26 above.
Issachar
Comment