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  • Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles, Paul, Peter, John etc!

    I think we all know where this guy is at, but it's still disturbing that he has a huge following, what Bible are these people reading from? oh wait, they don't read it, they just sit and take in his 'feel good' message

    http://unitedforawakening.com/joel-o...eter-and-john/
    When asked directly if people whom are openly practicing homosexuals are accepted into the Kingdom, Joel Osteen responded with “Absolutely, anybody is.”
    Last edited by Andy; 08-28-2013, 08:15 AM. Reason: Fixing link

  • #2
    Re: Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles, Paul, Peter, John etc!

    The link is dead.

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    • #3
      Re: Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles, Paul, Peter, John etc!

      Try again, GH - there was a formatting problem with the link and I fixed it.

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      • #4
        Re: Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles, Paul, Peter, John etc!

        Loads very slowly, but works….eventually. Sad stuff.

        wlnf

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        • #5
          Re: Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles, Paul, Peter, John etc!

          Finally. Slow to open is not the word.

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          • #6
            Re: Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles, Paul, Peter, John etc!

            for those of us who can't get it to play, can someone please summarize what he said? thanks

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            • #7
              Re: Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles, Paul, Peter, John etc!

              Apologies, the link was working fine yesterday.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles, Paul, Peter, John etc!

                My take on it: It is a whole lot of stuff that is one or two sentences not in context, with a whole lot of scripture that is also not put into context. Jmvho

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles, Paul, Peter, John etc!

                  For those of you who couldn't open the page, here's the whole article.
                  btw, the fact that He aligns himself with Oprah Winfrey says alot!

                  By Peter Michael Martinez.

                  According to Joel Osteen – Pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, these first century apostles are wrong and outdated and he has come out boldly to infer indirectly that Apostles Paul, Peter, and John whom wrote much of the New Testament were wrong and need to be corrected and rebuked.

                  When asked directly if people whom are openly practicing homosexuals are accepted into the Kingdom, Joel Osteen responded with “Absolutely, anybody is.”

                  We all need to listen carefully to the words that this “man of God” speaks as he goes on interviews so we too can find the errors in the preaching of the first century apostles.

                  Joel does acknowledge that some things are “sin” but says, “I don’t address these things from the pulpit. They only come up in interviews.” When asked if openly practicing gay/homosexual people will be accepted into heaven, Joel Osteen responded, “I believe they will.”

                  He makes no mention of the need for repentance.
                  Joel Osteen Brings Us Universalism

                  The doctrine of universalism is the belief that all people are “saved” no matter who you are or what you’ve done.

                  This is a new version of the “good news” that is MUCH BETTER than the message the Jesus and the Apostles preached 2,ooo years ago which was far too narrow according to the way Joel Osteen explains his “message.”

                  “I’m for everybody” says Joel Osteen, “I’m not into excluding people. Jesus can reveal himself to anybody.”

                  The idea is that since no one would be accepted if we are called to be “holy” then all have to be accepted. So goes this logic. This doctrine also believes that all roads lead to heaven so there is no one “way, truth, and life that leads to the father.”

                  According to Joel, “sin means to miss the mark” which, while technically correct, stands in contrast to the teachings of many writers of the Bible that teach that sin is violation of God’s Holy Laws so if by missing the mark Joel means violating God’s ways, then yes, sin is missing the mark.
                  According to the out of date writers of the Bible, the “wages of sin is death” for which blood is required and for which a sacrifice was presented.

                  It sounds a lot more harsh to say SIN is TREASON punishable by death than to say it is “missing the mark” which is a bit incomplete. Sin is also “to incur guilt, incur penalty” which according to the scripture is death.

                  Romans 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

                  When asked about people who live in open sin, Joel smilingly said, “I’m not going to bash those people. I’m not going to be against those people. They’re good people.”

                  So by contrast, Apostle Jude is “bashing people” when he said:

                  According to the out of date writers of the Bible, the “wages of sin is death” for which blood is required and for which a sacrifice was presented.

                  It sounds a lot more harsh to say SIN is TREASON punishable by death than to say it is “missing the mark” which is a bit incomplete. Sin is also “to incur guilt, incur penalty” which according to the scripture is death.

                  Romans 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

                  When asked about people who live in open sin, Joel smilingly said, “I’m not going to bash those people. I’m not going to be against those people. They’re good people.”

                  So by contrast, Apostle Jude is “bashing people” when he said:

                  Jude 1:14-16 “And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men’s persons in admiration because of advantage.”

                  Joel’s wife recently said to Piers Morgan. “It’s the people that we’re after. We’re not trying to judge their sin. We want to encourage them and love them. You’re only going to win people by reaching out to them.”

                  Isn’t that so awesome! They are all about the people! They want you and I be accepted without having to discuss anything like repentance or righteousness. These are “judgmental” subjects that we just don’t need.

                  These modern day ministry giants have gone on national television to essentially correct Apostles Peter, John, and Paul to say … they are wrong … if you listen to Joel Osteen. So many across the nation are so proud of this Pastor and his courage in confronting the church fathers!

                  According to Joel Osteen, Apostle Paul erroneously stated to the Corinthians …
                  1 Corinthians 6:8-10 “Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”

                  In saying this, according to Joel Osteen, Apostle Paul is being “exclusionary” and should be rebuked and corrected. He is obviously wrong and should never have said these things to the Corinthian church.

                  Corinth was known for its sexual openness and promiscuity so for Paul to “condemn” all these “good people” was completely out of order and he needs to be rebuked.

                  When Paul wrote to the Romans he also was in complete error in stating the following in the first chapter of his letter, according to Joel Osteen.

                  “And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.”

                  According to Joel Osteen, Paul was absolutely incorrect and to state that being a homosexual is a sin is being “judgmental” and should not be tolerated. It is just wrong according to Joel Osteen. Many people agree with Joel Osteen today and so, Apostle Paul is apparently misguided and incorrect in his letter.

                  Joel goes on to point out the additional errors in the words Apostle Paul wrote.

                  “Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.” Paul went on to write in the first chapter of Romans, which according to the words of Joel Osteen, he is deeply misguided and mistaken.

                  Apostle Paul should repent for saying such things according to Joel Osteen. A growing number of people in America agree with Joel that Apostle Paul should be rebuked for ever saying such things because Paul isn’t accepting of people like Joel Osteen is.

                  Equally misguided and incorrect according to Joel Osteen is Paul’s words to the Galatian church. In his writings, Apostle Paul made stunning comments that were clearly exclusionary statements concerning the Kingdom and those whom are accepted, and in so doing has made grave error according to Joel Osteen.

                  See if you can detect the absolutely false statements that Apostle Paul made to the Galatian church according to the stated doctrine of Joel Osteen.

                  Galatians 5:19-21 “Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.“

                  You can clearly see what has Joel Osteen so unhappy that he’s gone on national television to correct this! It is this type of rhetoric, according to Joel Osteen, that is completely false and misrepresents the God he serves.

                  Joel Osteen’s God loves everybody and there are no exclusions because then, according to Joel, “none of us would be saved.” So again, Apostle Paul was completely incorrect and should never have written such harsh and insensitive words to the Galatian church according to Joel.

                  I imagine Joel Osteen would say “shame on Apostle Paul for ever writing such hateful words!”

                  Now, not only is Joel out to correct the misguided Apostle Paul, but Apostle Peter was also brought into serious question for clearly being exclusionary when he wrote these words.

                  1 Peter 1:14-16 “As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.”

                  According to the doctrine Joel Osteen has now shared with us all as “his message,” being clearly more evolved and enlightened than the archaic Apostle Peter, no one can be holy. We are left to conclude that Peter is misguided and is being judgmental. What a terrible yoke and condemnation Apostle Peter is trying to put on the good people he is writing to.

                  Additionally, Apostle Peter goes on to say things that are completely against the Lakewood Church Pastor’s God when he stated the following.

                  2 Peter 2:6-8 “And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds

                  According to Joel Osteen’s public comments, one could conclude that Apostle Peter was in complete error and deceived when he wrote such things. What a terrible condemnation. He clearly did not know the doctrine that Joel Osteen preaches or he would never have said such awful and critical things.

                  Joel Osteen indirectly implies (subtly) that these apostles were false and were critical and judgmental and should NOT be listened to in America today. We all need to listen instead to Joel Osteen and Oprah Winfrey.

                  Now Apostle John made even greater errors if the benchmark is Joel Osteen’s “message” when he stated some of the thing that he wrote which, according to Joel Osteen, is just plain and simply not true.

                  It takes a lot of courage for Joel to stand against these writings but he believes strongly in his “uplifting and encouraging” doctrine that does not endorse such harsh and judgmental statements as written by these ancient Apostles.

                  We should all pray for Joel Osteen because he needs our prayers if he’s going to continue to champion the cause of those oppressed and condemned by the writings and statements of Apostles like Paul, Peter and John.

                  Revelation 21:8 “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

                  You see, according to Joel Osteen in a recent interview, “God doesn’t see any sin as worse than another” and all are going to heaven. Apparently in Joel Osteen’s bible, he has redacted the unpardonable sin. So if you’re a follower of Joel Osteen’s then this statement by Apostle John must seem just plain wrong.

                  Apostle John doesn’t know what he’s talking about and we need to listen to the wisdom of Joel Osteen. Apostle John clearly was in error and should be rebuked for suggesting that people who tell lies are going to have their part in the lake of fire.

                  What was Apostle John thinking writing such judgmental things???

                  That’s a terrible thing to say and no one, certainly not Apostle John, should be allowed to say such things. As Joel says, “there’s enough condemnation in the world” and we don’t need anymore.

                  Additionally, in his letter, Apostle John says things like …

                  1 John 3:8-10 “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”

                  Now according to Joel Osteen and the thousands that agree with his “message,” this entire passage should be removed from the pages of the bible and no one should be saying such things. In fact, Joel goes on to share that it is this exact kind of preaching that will hinder “church growth.”

                  Apostles Paul, Peter, and John listen up. Joel Osteen rebukes you all.

                  Now listen, Joel Osteen and his ministry in Houston are all about people. He is standing up for your rights! He is taking a REALLY BIG RISK because … if he’s wrong, and Apostle Paul is right … then he stands to be cursed! So he needs your support in prayer NOW!

                  Galatians 1:9 “As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”

                  Instead, you all need to listen to his message of universal acceptance and lawless living without any condemnation so we can all “lift our spirits” and be “encouraging and loving” to all people no matter what lifestyle or choices they make. After all, according to Joel, God loves us all and everyone is going to heaven so lighten up!

                  There is no exclusive path to the Kingdom. According to Joel Osteen, we need to hear this message because it’s the right message and anyone that says that there is an exclusive path to God is wrong.

                  Joel would know, look at the size of his church! He is clearly telling you the truth more than anyone in history.

                  John 14:6 “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

                  Exactly how much error is too much?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles, Paul, Peter, John etc!

                    Originally posted by Glorify Him View Post
                    My take on it: It is a whole lot of stuff that is one or two sentences not in context, with a whole lot of scripture that is also not put into context. Jmvho
                    After reading the article I pretty much agree with your assessment. The author spends much more time putting words in Joel Osteen's mouth than he does actually quoting him. While Joel's statements are, at face value, in contradiction to scripture (and I'm no fan of his), I seriously doubt he would ever say the things the author has him saying by implication.

                    Having said that; if Joel actually teaches that all roads lead to heaven or that everybody is saved (as opposed to everybody can be saved) then his teaching is clearly false. To support whether this is actually his teaching I would have appreciated many more actual quotes and a lot less reading between the lines.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles, Paul, Peter, John etc!

                      I sent the article to my pastor. His response:

                      I don't disagree with the heart of the article - Osteen at BEST skirts a fine line, and I believe crosses it. But I also think it's sad that guys like this author, Peter Michael Martinez, go out of their way to sensationalize things. He states that Joel has rebuked the apostles, but in the article simply infers that Joel would. I don't believe he would rebuke the apostles because I don't think mister Osteen is capable of rebuking anyone! That's not his shtick. His is an inclusive, everyone is right, easy-believism. But this guy should just point out the wrong without slander and malice. I find myself being sickened by both sides...
                      wlnf

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                      • #12
                        Re: Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles, Paul, Peter, John etc!

                        Originally posted by WasLostNowFound View Post
                        I sent the article to my pastor. His response:

                        I don't disagree with the heart of the article - Osteen at BEST skirts a fine line, and I believe crosses it. But I also think it's sad that guys like this author, Peter Michael Martinez, go out of their way to sensationalize things. He states that Joel has rebuked the apostles, but in the article simply infers that Joel would. I don't believe he would rebuke the apostles because I don't think mister Osteen is capable of rebuking anyone! That's not his shtick. His is an inclusive, everyone is right, easy-believism. But this guy should just point out the wrong without slander and malice. I find myself being sickened by both sides...
                        wlnf
                        I would agree with your pastor, while I find the substance of JO’s message’s overall very damaging, frankly the tone presented by the article is much more representative of THE false gospel that commonly sets itself opposed to the Lord Jesus Christ. IMO

                        Two ends against the middle…

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles, Paul, Peter, John etc!

                          I just read the article too. My take is that the author is simply frustrated by so much teaching that seems to water down what the Word actually says.

                          If I said: That light bulb is on, I would have no problem, even though different words are used when I'm being quoted, if someone said: "Issachar said that light bulb is not burned out."

                          That wouldn't be really "reading between the lines", imho.

                          I think the author is actually saying, "If Joel said this, then conversely, he also said 'this'."

                          From the article:

                          When asked if openly practicing gay/homosexual people will be accepted into heaven, Joel Osteen responded, “I believe they will.”
                          IF Joel (or anyone) actually said that, then he is teaching something horrendous .. just think of the people that may be led to believe that, never repent of their sin, and AFTER death, finding out the truth.

                          “I’m for everybody” says Joel Osteen, “I’m not into excluding people. Jesus can reveal himself to anybody.”
                          IF Joel (or anyone) said that, then it is true, that by default, anyone saying someone is excluded (presumably from heaven), is teaching opposite of what Joel apparently believes. The author gives several scriptures that show that unrepentant sinners, will be excluded.

                          I'd have to talk to this author to know what his heart is on this .. (Maybe I'll look, later, for anything else he may have written ..

                          Issachar, recognizes, as do many others, that the age we're in, has a lot of false teaching ..
                          The church is on Earth to save souls from a lost world, not to save the world from lost souls.

                          Man learns about history, not from history. To learn from history requires wisdom. Cut off from God, he has none, so history repeats; no new thing under the sun.

                          I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken - dylan

                          Psalms 122:8 For my brethren and companions' sakes, I will now say, Peace be within thee.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles, Paul, Peter, John etc!

                            Yes, Iss but although the word IF is only two letters it is actually a huge word.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Joel Osteen Rebukes Apostles, Paul, Peter, John etc!

                              Originally posted by Glorify Him View Post
                              Yes, Iss but although the word IF is only two letters it is actually a huge word.
                              The author clearly states that it is what Joel said. To cast doubt on what he states are direct quotes doesn't make sense especially since the context of what else he says Joel said absolutely teaches an inclusive message. It makes perfect sense to me he would say these things (and also given other things I've heard Joel say in interviews). He somewhat redeems his statement by ending with the truth: "I believe Jesus can reveal himself to anyone." THAT part is true.

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